TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - Re: Engine Teardown.. looking for input
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Subject Re: Engine Teardown.. looking for input
     
Posted by Tech@EPR on November 14, 2019 at 3:27 PM
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In Reply To Engine Teardown.. looking for input posted by dTb on November 09, 2019 at 05:34 PM
     
Message I just wanted to chime in here to correct some false statements that are being made in terms of this engine assembly.

1. EPR oil pan had weld pin hole that was not pressure tested before i installed it. I had to pull the pan and get it welded on my own dollar.

This is false. There was in fact a pinhole leak that was never found until oil was filled into the pan. This was an oversight from Moroso (who at the time were making my pans) and yes I take the heat for not verifying that it was leak free however I also took it upon myself to think that being made from a quality supplier I would not have issues like this but that obviously wasn't the case. You did NOT pay for that out of your pocket because I have ALL the transcripts of all of our conversations and I paid for the repair. Not you. So please do not start throwing me under the bus trying to gain some steam in all this. There was a leak yes, it was resolved and I paid for that repair/fix.

2. After i installed the oil pan it was still leaking. Pulled the pan again (this time with an engine pull) and discovered that EPR used the wrong half moon gasket.. from what i could tell it was from a 350Z and had a very large gap where it wasnt sealing.

The seal was in fact wrong and it was incorrectly packaged in the full engine gasket kit that was supplied and used on your build. I take the heat for that but you should have continued your statement to say that I also sent you any and all gaskets you needed for any repairs you were making up to and INCLUDING having you bring the engine BACK to my shop for me to fix all of this at no charge to you. Again its all in the transcripts via text messages. I had to remove all the incorrect gaskets from the kits as it was a packaging issue at the suppliers of which was rectified.


3. Driver side intake cam seal popped out and barfed oil all over my timing belt. Cause was clogged oil return port behind the seal. Looks like the head was not cleaned properly... i pulled out a cured piece of red silicone. I did not use red silicone so it came with the motor...

I do not use red silicone on any of my jobs but regardless of the fact that will not cause a seal to pop out. Seals pop out due to excessive oil pressure or crank case pressures. Since we know your engine was in fact sealed well you had a breathing issue within the crankcase still. Could have been too small of breather lines etc. I don't know. All you mentioned to me in your text messages was you voided your system of pcv but did not tell me the specifics on how or what setup you used. This can lead to symptoms as you experienced.

4. Rear main seal leaking. Pulled the tranny on two occasions and replaced the rear main. Still leaking. Sleeved it on the third try. Not leaking anymore.

We reused your existing crankshaft. If it was leaking on the rebuilt assembly then it would have been leaking prior. What the truth of the matter was that the rear main seal housing was out of spec. I remember because we had a long discussion about it and I sent you a new housing and seal. You failed to mention that as well in your statement

Leading to current teardown:

I put about 5k miles on this build until i started getting bubbles in the radiator. My tune is a standard haltech tune with care put into the AFR tuning over the course of a year or so of driving on the weekends. I would have timing pulled if it registered pinging with a relatively low threshold (even though the pnp haltech and standard knock sensor is not the greatest combination).

I asked you a few times about the tune and you assured me it was ok yet no one knows the validity of your tuning capabilities but only what you've mentioned to me and to these ppl here on the forum. I asked was it a professionally done tune or was a "home brew" and you told me a "home brew". These are facts that can be backed up with transcript. Not saying you don't know how to tune but no one knows your bin file nor did you share it with me and while most ppl try to rule out common situations that is one that was never explored.

I pulled the motor apart, took apart the heads and engine block. I noticed that 30p exhaust valves were used on the heads. They are not made from high temperature resistant alloy required by turbocharged engine.. not sure if these are contributing to my issues but im sure it doesnt help. It looks like there might be some oil blowing by the valve stem seals given the look of the chambers..

All your parts that came OUT of your heads went back in such as the valves and retainers. You were upgraded to JWT HD valve springs and if memory serves me a set of JWT cams that you fitted and dialed in yourself.

I would like input on the bore and hone condition of this block. There are scrapes along the piston travel 180 deg from each other on the cylinder walls on all cylinders. I can catch a nail on some of these. The honing xhatch looks very rough.. i am going to take this block to a performance machine shop and have it inspected.

I looked over your images and the hone finish is in really good condition despite the failures you experienced. Vertical scratches came derive from a few issues, non debur rings (not possible as I gap and debur all the rings, or debris.

I can not tell if the pistons are in ok condition and i need to clean them. I think they were coated with some ceramics, and it looks like the ceramics are pitting and coming off.. There is also excessive skirt wear for 5k miles in my opinion, but this is where i need input from the experts. Also, it looks like my main bearings are toast. I made sure i primed the oil pump on first start up, did the brake in procedure that EPR recommended with the Motul brakein oil, did oil changes multiple times in the first 1k miles. The rod bearings look ok with the exception of one of them.

The ceramic used on your piston crowns is a cermet ceramic and is VERY porous and rough feeling and looking. That is how that ceramic (which was all that was available through techline at the time) looks when applied. The only way a pitting or degradation is formed is from detonation OR water is present. You mentioned you somehow blew your headgasket (normally due to excessive combustion pressures which is from excessive timing and or detonation). I looked at the piston skirts and there is wear as there will always show but the condition of the thrust face is still smooth but with vertical lines. This is indicative of FOD...or foreign object debris. There is no other way score lines are transferred to a piston skirt other than this way. There are zero issues with your pistons and in fact can be cleaned and put right back into use. Now onto your main bearings. What you see is the outer layer of babbit that has been used. That is the bearings purpose. The very top layer is the assistance layer upon break in. The oil film wedge did a really good job at keeping the bearing pretty clean from what I see. There is not fatigue, no delamination nor oil starvation present. The oil clearance I set your assembly up on proves useful as there is no damage to the bearing at all.

Opinions? The pistons are 88mm and if the bore and hone is toast then i would need to go to 89mm right? The other option is source another block and start from scratch. Can i recondition these pistons? Also, i took off one of the piston ring sets, and one of the gaps looks way bigger than the other. This is the first time ive tore down the Z motor so i dont know all of the tolerances and measurements. I have been doing all of the work on my Z's for 18 years but this is the first block teardown.

You can't hold a ring and say the gap is bigger than others when you didn't put the ring in the bore to measure its gap. As mentioned your pistons are absolutely fine and can be cleaned and put right back into use. A mere "puff hone" on the block cylinder bores can remove much of the scoring you see. Now the important aspect, you mention above that you have no information of the tolerances and measurements and that is an utter lie. You were given a build book with EVERY measurement and tq value listed. These are the things that owners are doing now a days unfortunately, speaking out vs physical reading and discussing with those that actually did the work. I made mention to you at least 2-3 times to bring your assembly back if you'd like me to go over it and so forth and you never took that offering. I attempted to go to your home to assist you but couldn't because due to scheduling and for the biggest upset was the fact I had to have spinal surgery for a 3 vertebrae fusion. You knew of this as well because you asked often of my recovery etc.

In the end it would have been great if you said "hey I'd like to just bring this all down and go over it all with you in person" and that would have been absolutely fine but instead you come on here to try and devalue the work I performed and begin the workings of a slander of sorts with insinuations etc...not that cool considering I never not answered your calls or text messages, extended help on SEVERAL occasions to fix anything that needed it etc. And yet here we are. Quite unfortunate because most who deal with me know I'll do pretty much whatever I can to rectify an issue.

https://imgur.com/a/6AVuYzZ

     
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